Is It Crack Or Not?
This is the first installment of a semi-regular (read: as regularly as I can be bothered) feature, Is It Crack Or Not? The idea is that there are often ideas in the GNOME community which may or may not be crack, so here the people can share their views. So without further ado, let's get on.
The proposal is that the screen shot button in GNOME should be extended to record video as well as take static screen shots. Jeroen among others has done a mockup of the interface for this feature. There are lots of open questions, such as will it record audio, how does one stop the recording without there being a Stop button in the interface, what codec to use, and does a normal user know the difference between Ogg Theora and MPEG 4? The important question however is is it crack or not? Leave your opinion in the comments!
Posted by Ross Burton at Tue Jun 14 17:24:28 2005:
Posted by jamin philip gray at Tue Jun 14 17:29:23 2005:
I don't think the idea is utter crack, but I think there needs to be some feedback indicating that it is recording. So if you start recording it should pop up a small window showing how much time has elapsed and giving you the option to press a stop (or even pause) and save the video.
Posted by Zaheer Abbas Merali at Tue Jun 14 17:37:00 2005:
Posted by Ross at Tue Jun 14 17:38:44 2005:
How about this for crack: grab the entire screen, popup the progress window in a specific location and from that moment on ignore any Damage events for that area. :)
Posted by Christian Schaller at Tue Jun 14 17:42:15 2005:
Posted by Owen Williams at Tue Jun 14 17:43:37 2005:
In general, not crack, but making the screenshot applet in charge of configuring codecs is crack. Maybe it makes sense to have a standard gstreamer codec chooser (like a font selector)? This is what apple does with quicktime. It's going to suck if a dvd ripper, video editor, and screen shot program all implement their own codec windows.
Posted by Thomas at Tue Jun 14 17:45:20 2005:
the choice of codec should just be part of the standard video profile that is stored in gconf, OBVIOUSLY ! And the only thing the user would be able to choose is the human-readable name that represents that codec choice, like "high-quality screen capture"
Posted by Zaheer Abbas Merali at Tue Jun 14 17:49:06 2005:
Thomas, make video encoding profiles in gstreamer a priority :)
For the moment I'm won over by the docklet way, i think UI wise it'll be difficult to be in the same UI as the screenshot dialog.
Posted by pharon at Tue Jun 14 17:56:27 2005:
Posted by Ross at Tue Jun 14 17:57:36 2005:
Posted by Jamie McCracken at Tue Jun 14 17:58:05 2005:
For the moment I'm won over by the docklet way, i think UI wise it'll be difficult to be in the same UI as the screenshot dialog.
This is a superb feature if it can work. I agree with Christian in that there should be a panel applet for progress and to stop the recording. The only snag is that ordinary users might not notice the applet and so recording will continue unabated...(perhaps an additional entry box in the dialog for how many seconds to record?)
Posted by Karel demeyer at Tue Jun 14 17:58:48 2005:
No crack, even if in the desktop as it would be used by normal users to make easy "how to do this" movies for friends and family. I don't want to see a stopbutton as applet on my panel as I don't want to have that applet loaded all the time, but what about just a simple stop (pauze) button in the tray that off course only shows up when recording and when you hover it it shows a tooltip with the lenght.
For the codec I'm also for some "default desktop codecs" (plural) setting. like you can sety a "high quality" codec, a "medium" and a "poor quality codec" and then when in some app you need to select a codec you just pick one from that list. Simple but still powerfull, no ?
Posted by Ed Mack at Tue Jun 14 18:00:24 2005:
Posted by Ross at Tue Jun 14 18:06:28 2005:
Posted by Karel demeyer at Tue Jun 14 18:09:27 2005:
For the codec I'm also for some "default desktop codecs" (plural) setting. like you can sety a "high quality" codec, a "medium" and a "poor quality codec" and then when in some app you need to select a codec you just pick one from that list. Simple but still powerfull, no ?
No crack, even if in the desktop as it would be used by normal users to make easy "how to do this" movies for friends and family. I don't want to see a stopbutton as applet on my panel as I don't want to have that applet loaded all the time, but what about just a simple stop (pauze) button in the tray that off course only shows up when recording and when you hover it it shows a tooltip with the lenght.
For the codec I'm also for some "default desktop codecs" (plural) setting. like you can sety a "high quality" codec, a "medium" and a "poor quality codec" and then when in some app you need to select a codec you just pick one from that list. Simple but still powerfull, no ?
Posted by Dan Ballard at Tue Jun 14 18:16:27 2005:
For the codec I'm also for some "default desktop codecs" (plural) setting. like you can sety a "high quality" codec, a "medium" and a "poor quality codec" and then when in some app you need to select a codec you just pick one from that list. Simple but still powerfull, no ?
I vote not crack. If there was a really easy way to make quick desktop videos this would be super cool and usefull. Good for debugging info if you can show what you were doing when an app crashed and how it crashed; good for tutorials on how things work; and cool in general for showing off neat new things.
I don't think a small popup is unreasonable, just like how for instance many home camcorders have a time overlay on the film. However a notification area button also seems like a good idea.
Finally, I also agree that codec selection probably shouldn't be in the main dialog but in some deeper dialog where other codec selection happens, like the gstreamer one.
Posted by emmanuel at Tue Jun 14 18:22:51 2005:
I don't think a small popup is unreasonable, just like how for instance many home camcorders have a time overlay on the film. However a notification area button also seems like a good idea.
Finally, I also agree that codec selection probably shouldn't be in the main dialog but in some deeper dialog where other codec selection happens, like the gstreamer one.
it belongs in a separate tool. however it's long overdue that there is a "copy screenshot to clipboard"... let's have the basic stuff first...
Posted by Adhemar at Tue Jun 14 18:24:20 2005:
It’s definately not crack.
But I wonder: why do you have the choice between whole desktop and single window when you’re taking an image screenshot, and not when you’re taking a video?
About the codec choice: I agree with Karel demeyer that “quality choice” is more important and more straight-forward then codec choice. I like his solution with “default desktop codecs” chosen some place else.
About visual feedback: I agree that (by default) there should be a notification icon/panel applet indicating that a video is being captured, where you can find out how long already (how many seconds/minutes) and where you can stop the recording. However, it should be possible to not have this option (for purists who don’t want their video screenshot to be any different then the screen when they’re not recording.) However, since this is not recommended to basic users, the UI for that may be non-evident. (It may even be just a gconfig-setting.)
Posted by pharon at Tue Jun 14 18:26:03 2005:
But I wonder: why do you have the choice between whole desktop and single window when you’re taking an image screenshot, and not when you’re taking a video?
About the codec choice: I agree with Karel demeyer that “quality choice” is more important and more straight-forward then codec choice. I like his solution with “default desktop codecs” chosen some place else.
About visual feedback: I agree that (by default) there should be a notification icon/panel applet indicating that a video is being captured, where you can find out how long already (how many seconds/minutes) and where you can stop the recording. However, it should be possible to not have this option (for purists who don’t want their video screenshot to be any different then the screen when they’re not recording.) However, since this is not recommended to basic users, the UI for that may be non-evident. (It may even be just a gconfig-setting.)
The idea is not crack, it's beautiful.
Here's a crack thought I had:
For real time capture of the desktop, most computers won't have enough CPU power to encode video so you will have to use a "low quality" encoding or something light like mjpeg.
However, I remember seeing screen movies done using vnc2swf. Small in size , but clear and colorful. Can this be integrated ?
/me ducks.
Posted by Federico Mena-Quintero at Tue Jun 14 18:31:12 2005:
Here's a crack thought I had:
For real time capture of the desktop, most computers won't have enough CPU power to encode video so you will have to use a "low quality" encoding or something light like mjpeg.
However, I remember seeing screen movies done using vnc2swf. Small in size , but clear and colorful. Can this be integrated ?
/me ducks.
How to show that it is recording? You could have a shaped window with a big fat blinking red dot and a "REC" caption. Then, you hack the compositing manager to not capture that window when recording. Oh, because you have to use the compositing manager as the source for the video --- it is what determines what gets shown to the screen.
Posted by Federico Mena-Quintero at Tue Jun 14 18:35:11 2005:
http://nat.org/2005/january/#28-January-2005
http://primates.ximian.com/~federico/news-2005-01.html#31
The "don't record this window" for the compositing manager could also be used to hide confidential information.
Posted by pel at Tue Jun 14 18:37:48 2005:
http://primates.ximian.com/~federico/news-2005-01.html#31
The "don't record this window" for the compositing manager could also be used to hide confidential information.
Not crack, but recording the entire desktop might not be the most usefull thing - recording individual applications though... that would rock!
Posted by Ross at Tue Jun 14 18:45:49 2005:
pharon: I've advocated using SVF inside SWF on the usability list previously.
Posted by Andrew at Tue Jun 14 18:59:41 2005:
Definitely not crack!
A basic editor for after screenshot (image) capture would be great! This would be great for adding basic comments and cropping the image.
e.g. I want to make a screen capture to show something specific is wrong with an application. I want to draw someone's attention to an area. A big red arrow or coloured hi-lighting of an area would help identify the problem. I would then like to add some text explaining what the issue is.
Or is this suggestion crack?
Posted by fct at Tue Jun 14 19:03:06 2005:
A basic editor for after screenshot (image) capture would be great! This would be great for adding basic comments and cropping the image.
e.g. I want to make a screen capture to show something specific is wrong with an application. I want to draw someone's attention to an area. A big red arrow or coloured hi-lighting of an area would help identify the problem. I would then like to add some text explaining what the issue is.
Or is this suggestion crack?
It's such a wonderful idea that just reading it made me want to hug everyone around. Luckily, there was no victim around.
There are some problems with video recording: hard disk space occupied (perhaps a limit should be set by the system?), disk swapping, CPU overuse, and perhaps making it so that the user can attach the video to a bug report (now that would be crack-tastic).
Posted by Thijs at Tue Jun 14 19:04:47 2005:
Posted by pharon at Tue Jun 14 19:05:18 2005:
There are some problems with video recording: hard disk space occupied (perhaps a limit should be set by the system?), disk swapping, CPU overuse, and perhaps making it so that the user can attach the video to a bug report (now that would be crack-tastic).
hmm. gotta come up with a more cracky idea :).
That looks exactly like what I saw, without the complexity of vnc.
So is there a gstreamer codec to ease the use of this method?
This "sfv inside swf" codec should be the ""default desktop codec" ( singular ).
About the highlighting maybe use "gromit"?
Posted by Nathan Palmer at Tue Jun 14 19:06:19 2005:
That looks exactly like what I saw, without the complexity of vnc.
So is there a gstreamer codec to ease the use of this method?
This "sfv inside swf" codec should be the ""default desktop codec" ( singular ).
About the highlighting maybe use "gromit"?
I vote NOT crack. I think this is a great idea and if done right should be a standard feature.
It sure would make it a whole lot easier to create and share video's. One could make a tutorial website where the members take video's to demonstrate specific funtionality.
After recording the video editing should be to a minimum. If further editing is required a "Open in XX Video Editor" button could be put into the interface.
Posted by Ikke at Tue Jun 14 19:15:08 2005:
It sure would make it a whole lot easier to create and share video's. One could make a tutorial website where the members take video's to demonstrate specific funtionality.
After recording the video editing should be to a minimum. If further editing is required a "Open in XX Video Editor" button could be put into the interface.
Not crack at all. It'd be a superb addition to the desktop, as long as it's well implemented, not changing the way screen capturing etc works currently.
Posted by Thosil at Tue Jun 14 19:22:36 2005:
Not Crack of course!
Imagine the potential for a helpdesk or an administrator. Definitly this is not crack.
In addition to that, the possibility to create swf files (which are really more readeable than video), and recording sounds/voice would be a little more cracky but a very nice feature.
Posted by felipe at Tue Jun 14 19:24:11 2005:
Imagine the potential for a helpdesk or an administrator. Definitly this is not crack.
In addition to that, the possibility to create swf files (which are really more readeable than video), and recording sounds/voice would be a little more cracky but a very nice feature.
cool! at first i thought: "definately a wow factor for newcomers"...
but then... i don't know, is this so badly "needed"? it seems a bit too geekish, in a way (nothing against geekiness).
i think the "Take a Screenshot" menu item itself is more than enough
anyway it's cool :D
Posted by Carlos Garnacho at Tue Jun 14 19:27:34 2005:
but then... i don't know, is this so badly "needed"? it seems a bit too geekish, in a way (nothing against geekiness).
i think the "Take a Screenshot" menu item itself is more than enough
anyway it's cool :D
UI wise, I find it quite confusing to show a GtkRadioButton group spread in 2 different sections, and it's missing the destination file :)
besides that, it would be a really nice thing to have
Posted by Joshua Lock at Tue Jun 14 19:28:52 2005:
besides that, it would be a really nice thing to have
Not crack! It'd rock!
I agree with the notification area icon for stopping etc and a standard GStreamer preference dialog would be cool for picking codec types of different qualities.
Even better than the notification area icon would be Federico's idea of a recording dot. That would be swish!
Posted by Stuart Ellis at Tue Jun 14 19:38:52 2005:
I agree with the notification area icon for stopping etc and a standard GStreamer preference dialog would be cool for picking codec types of different qualities.
Even better than the notification area icon would be Federico's idea of a recording dot. That would be swish!
Definitely not crack if the technical settings can be separated from the stop/go applet - hugely useful for training, marketing demos etc., especially if Flash output is available to keep the file size down.
If it's possible to capture just one window then we can use QEMU or similar to demonstrate /anything/, upto into installing a distro.
Posted by Ross at Tue Jun 14 20:08:56 2005:
If it's possible to capture just one window then we can use QEMU or similar to demonstrate /anything/, upto into installing a distro.
Is everyone noticing that this is a poll over whether the recording feature should be in the desktop itself and not whether it should exist as a seperate application?
Posted by Zaheer Abbas Merali at Tue Jun 14 20:11:17 2005:
Posted by Tom von Schwerdtner at Tue Jun 14 20:11:34 2005:
IMO it's crack. Video should be it's own small window with record/pause/stop/whatever... then it can sit in the corner of the screen or somewhere unobtrusive while the video is made. It should also have an applet mode to stick these controls in the panel for an even better experience.
As for the usefulness of video, it is extremely useful. 1) We can get more nice application demonstrations from developers 2) We can potentially massively improve the gnome documentation (embedded video in yelp anyone?) and 3) We can make the lives of support desk employees much simpler.
Posted by Tom von Schwerdtner at Tue Jun 14 20:15:08 2005:
As for the usefulness of video, it is extremely useful. 1) We can get more nice application demonstrations from developers 2) We can potentially massively improve the gnome documentation (embedded video in yelp anyone?) and 3) We can make the lives of support desk employees much simpler.
To clarify:
It is NOT CRACK to have it in the desktop. (Anyone who has ever worked a tech help desk will understand this.)
It is CRACK to have it in the screenshot UI.
Posted by Bryan at Tue Jun 14 20:26:54 2005:
Posted by Dave "Captain" Camp at Tue Jun 14 20:31:39 2005:
It is NOT CRACK to have it in the desktop. (Anyone who has ever worked a tech help desk will understand this.)
It is CRACK to have it in the screenshot UI.
Desktop recordings are way more Actually Useful than screenshots (bug reproduction, training, demoing, etc). If screenshots are in the desktop, recordings should be too.
Posted by Jonathan Blandford at Tue Jun 14 20:45:36 2005:
Feature is fine; merging it with the screenshooter is wrong. Neither Screenshooter or video recorder should warrant a menu item.
Posted by Stefan at Tue Jun 14 20:57:36 2005:
Like was said before, there should be a way to choose the encoding quality level instead of codec technobabble. But why couldn't the quality level also affect the video's size? "low quality" might scale the video down by 50% (thus ridding the codec of 75% of the frame size). This would probably look way better than a full-screen-capture which is full of compression artefacts (mind you, we're talking 1024x768 and up, so text on a scaled-down video is probably still readable).
Oh, almost forgot: Not Crack :-) But the mockup (although sweet) kinda kills the one-click-usability of the PrintScr-Key. Or would that key still produce a standard screenshot like before?
Posted by H.E. at Tue Jun 14 21:15:42 2005:
Oh, almost forgot: Not Crack :-) But the mockup (although sweet) kinda kills the one-click-usability of the PrintScr-Key. Or would that key still produce a standard screenshot like before?
Am I the only one to think that the whole idea of having a screenshot menu item in the first place is some serious crackrock?
Posted by aent at Tue Jun 14 21:39:13 2005:
I think this is an excellent feature, as long as the current print screen functionality remains. For the codec, I think the way it should be determined is by the file extension the user selects at the end. Users that don't know the difference between the file formats will just get the default extension and codec that we determine. A dialog for configuring the defualts would be fine though.
Also, keeping it easily accessible from the keyboard without having to go to the menus is important IMO since going to the menus is going to make it so you are unable to start from a very specific position. I think the best way to implement it actually would be to have Ctrl+Print Screen start the recording, press Ctrl+Print Screen again and the recording stops, leaving nothing on the screen while recording and no prompt before recording, and then prompt for file information afterwards, much like the current Screenshot behavior.
Posted by Ross at Tue Jun 14 21:39:51 2005:
Posted by remove screenshot at Tue Jun 14 21:42:12 2005:
Also, keeping it easily accessible from the keyboard without having to go to the menus is important IMO since going to the menus is going to make it so you are unable to start from a very specific position. I think the best way to implement it actually would be to have Ctrl+Print Screen start the recording, press Ctrl+Print Screen again and the recording stops, leaving nothing on the screen while recording and no prompt before recording, and then prompt for file information afterwards, much like the current Screenshot behavior.
Oh yeah, I'd also be in favor of dumping the Take Screenshot menu item in the first place, it doesn't really seem like it belongs. It should just be accessible by the keyboard shortcuts IMO, making the Ctrl+Print Screen idea sound even better.
Posted by Jon Dowland at Tue Jun 14 21:44:53 2005:
I think evaluating it's crack-worthyness should be done on a use-case basis: why would it be a good idea? A few ppl have raised that it would be informative for bug reports. How many bug reports would really be that much clearer with a video demonstrating them, I wonder? What other uses would recording the vids have - at present, we have 'demonstrating neat new programs people should try out'.
Posted by Jeff Hiltz at Tue Jun 14 22:21:54 2005:
Definitely not crack as a seperate tool, actually an awesome idea.
No better way to lower the barrier of teaching someone how to use something then for someone to be able to quickly and easily record a quick how-to. Perhaps adding a little more crack might be some sort of slick integration to Gaim (Send to User), maybe posting to a web server (perhaps integration with Gnome-vfs network ftp/sftp connections) - I suspect more often then not the videos being created will be for another person, not yourself, so some clever network integration work here to help get the files to the person(s) they are being made for could really provide a nice user experience.
Posted by Stuart Ellis at Tue Jun 14 22:41:54 2005:
No better way to lower the barrier of teaching someone how to use something then for someone to be able to quickly and easily record a quick how-to. Perhaps adding a little more crack might be some sort of slick integration to Gaim (Send to User), maybe posting to a web server (perhaps integration with Gnome-vfs network ftp/sftp connections) - I suspect more often then not the videos being created will be for another person, not yourself, so some clever network integration work here to help get the files to the person(s) they are being made for could really provide a nice user experience.
We (Fedora Docs) are very interested in using something like this, and looked at offering it as a Google bounty. If there's consensus on a rough spec then I'll post something on the Fedora bounties page for future, FWIW.
Having it shipped as part of the desktop itself is really valuable because it makes screen capture something that people can just do at will without worrying whether an extra component is installed. This is key to the support/help desk aspect.
Explanation for Jon Dowland: it can be really hard to reproduce an issue involving a graphical app if the user doesn't know enough to describe the situation precisely (often the case), which is partly why live desktop sharing is a big deal for support.
Posted by Murray Cumming at Tue Jun 14 23:08:38 2005:
Posted by Bastien at Tue Jun 14 23:52:30 2005:
Having it shipped as part of the desktop itself is really valuable because it makes screen capture something that people can just do at will without worrying whether an extra component is installed. This is key to the support/help desk aspect.
Explanation for Jon Dowland: it can be really hard to reproduce an issue involving a graphical app if the user doesn't know enough to describe the situation precisely (often the case), which is partly why live desktop sharing is a big deal for support.
Agreeing with Murray. Screenshot as a top-level menu is crack as well. Move everything to a Grab.app like application, in a menu, movie capture included (but leave my PrintScreen key to do what it's supposed to!).
Posted by Lars Damerow at Wed Jun 15 01:41:30 2005:
I'm just putting in my "not crack" vote. This feature has been repeatedly requested by our documentation folks, and though I came up with a hokey UI to do it, it'd be ever so much nicer to have it integrated into the desktop.
I don't feel a great need to have it as a menu item, though. It's much more important, I think, to make it controllable by the keyboard, and also to have those key commands be customizable.
Finally, I'd hope it'd be able to record accelerated GL windows as well.
cheers,
lars
Posted by Alan Horkan at Wed Jun 15 02:49:49 2005:
I don't feel a great need to have it as a menu item, though. It's much more important, I think, to make it controllable by the keyboard, and also to have those key commands be customizable.
Finally, I'd hope it'd be able to record accelerated GL windows as well.
cheers,
lars
Shoe horning a Screen recorder into the Screenshot applet is CRACK and so is anything to do with touching the Print screen button.
Improving the Screen Recorder and providing it as an applet with a nice dialog of its own or even as a full blown application with a menu item under Multimedia or Sound and Video is definately /NOT CRACK/ in fact the whole idea ROCKS! If it gets included in Gnome 2.12 will be a feature worth making a whole lot of noise about.
This will be invaluable for documentation and training and will indirectly help make Gnome easier to learn.
Posted by Matt Philmon at Wed Jun 15 04:41:59 2005:
Improving the Screen Recorder and providing it as an applet with a nice dialog of its own or even as a full blown application with a menu item under Multimedia or Sound and Video is definately /NOT CRACK/ in fact the whole idea ROCKS! If it gets included in Gnome 2.12 will be a feature worth making a whole lot of noise about.
This will be invaluable for documentation and training and will indirectly help make Gnome easier to learn.
I think it's a great notion even though I'm not particularly married to the idea of extending "print screen". I wouldn't be against it either... but as the user above suggested (Alan Horkan) I think it might serve better in a separate applet.
... and I'd like to be able to save my "video" straight to SWF format. All those neat demos people did using VNC to create a flash movie... I really love that.
Posted by Paul McGarry at Wed Jun 15 05:16:38 2005:
... and I'd like to be able to save my "video" straight to SWF format. All those neat demos people did using VNC to create a flash movie... I really love that.
I think that a screen recorder fits well in screen shooter.
From a users point of view I don't see why there should be an inherant differance in how you would go about taking a still image or moving image of your desktop. Definately NOT CRACK as a concept.
No doubt there are no doubt plenty of details to work out. Codec selection. Maybe a maximum record time. Great idea though.
Posted by Anton at Wed Jun 15 09:35:56 2005:
From a users point of view I don't see why there should be an inherant differance in how you would go about taking a still image or moving image of your desktop. Definately NOT CRACK as a concept.
No doubt there are no doubt plenty of details to work out. Codec selection. Maybe a maximum record time. Great idea though.
Maybe when you start recording, a widget like a panel could appear at the bottom of the screen with all the stop/pause and elapsed time buttons in it. But this will not appear on the final video as that part of the screen will be cut off. So if the screen is 800x600 and the widget is 30 then the final video is 800x570.
Posted by Andy Wingo at Wed Jun 15 09:54:23 2005:
I would not make it too easy to find the feature (e.g., a panel applet, shipped with the desktop, that records when you click on it). Otherwise it's too easy to unknowningly fill up your disk, which is a flavor of CRACK.
Better to not have it in the desktop, but available as a separate package, in which case it is NOT CRACK.
Posted by Aidan Delaney at Wed Jun 15 10:00:45 2005:
Better to not have it in the desktop, but available as a separate package, in which case it is NOT CRACK.
This feature is necessary and would help my job (as a lecturer) immensly. The mockup looks nice and I don't care if there's a stop button or a stop keybinding.
Currently if I want to make a screen video demonstration for my students it is easiest to do the VNC to SWF thing that Nat has done for the Beagle demos. Unfortunatly that encourages the use of non-free software.
Is it crack? It enables me to do something that was previously quite difficult to do. So no it's not crack, it's very helpful.
Posted by James Birkett at Wed Jun 15 11:33:12 2005:
Currently if I want to make a screen video demonstration for my students it is easiest to do the VNC to SWF thing that Nat has done for the Beagle demos. Unfortunatly that encourages the use of non-free software.
Is it crack? It enables me to do something that was previously quite difficult to do. So no it's not crack, it's very helpful.
"and does a normal user know the difference between Ogg Theora and MPEG 4?"
The answer to this one is a clear yes - MPEG 4 will play nicely on the average user's friend's windows box, no fuss, but ogg theora requres downloading extra software... unfortunate, but a point worth considering.
Posted by Ross at Wed Jun 15 11:38:33 2005:
The answer to this one is a clear yes - MPEG 4 will play nicely on the average user's friend's windows box, no fuss, but ogg theora requres downloading extra software... unfortunate, but a point worth considering.
James: find an average computer user, a sister or a mother will do, and ask them if they should record screen capures as MPEG-4 or Ogg Theora. Generally, they won't know, or even care.
A lot of "normal" people don't understand that an iPod is a MP3 player, they think the two are different things.
The added complication that not all systems can play both makes this very hard. Which is why I think the video should be in a SVF/SWF, it's installed on all Windows machines and there are free players for Linux (which hopefully support SVF).
Posted by James Henstridge at Wed Jun 15 14:55:33 2005:
A lot of "normal" people don't understand that an iPod is a MP3 player, they think the two are different things.
The added complication that not all systems can play both makes this very hard. Which is why I think the video should be in a SVF/SWF, it's installed on all Windows machines and there are free players for Linux (which hopefully support SVF).
Flash is really well supported on Windows and Mac, but is less well supported on Linux systems such as Gnome (especially if you use a minority platform like AMD64 or PPC).
I'd think picking something that works well on the target platform would be the primary goal, with support for windows/mac as a secondary goal.
Posted by Tomasz Torcz at Wed Jun 15 16:02:23 2005:
I'd think picking something that works well on the target platform would be the primary goal, with support for windows/mac as a secondary goal.
Good idea! Also, have a look at http://live.gnome.org/Istanbul . As for notification/stop button, Istanbul uses notification area icon - simple, red circle. It record to Theora, but have terrible performance. It's not possible to record (downscaled to 800x600) video and do anything useful with desktop on Sempron 2500+ - 100% CPU is used for encoding.
As for big, red arrows to show what is important - use http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/gromit/ and mark it!
Posted by James Birkett at Thu Jun 16 08:47:08 2005:
As for big, red arrows to show what is important - use http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/gromit/ and mark it!
Ross: I wasn't expecting that my mother would know why a theora file didn't work on someone else's machine - but given one of each type of file, she could certainly spot the one that played in media player.
Posted by Zaheer Abbas Merali at Thu Jun 16 16:23:18 2005:
